Caroline Carnegie: “I don’t think there’s a reason why the game shouldn’t be a success”

Season 2023/24 has been crucial for Melbourne Victory as Managing Director Caroline Carnegie is guiding the Club in the right direction.

There was a tricky period for the organisation, but that has not slowed Victory both on and off the park, as the A-League Men’s and Women’s sides have both performed well in their respective campaigns, with the former bouncing back superbly.

Coupled with significant business partnerships and acquisitions, Victory is establishing a gameplan for long-term growth ahead of its 20th year of existence in 2025.

In this interview with Soccerscene, Carnegie discusses the A-Leagues landscape, the partnership deals Victory have made, tackling the infrastructure problem and maintaining the World Cup legacy.

How are things travelling with Melbourne Victory?

Caroline Carnegie: We’re heading in the right direction with both the men’s and women’s team doing very well.

There’s always going to be noise in different sports – with the Australian Professional League’s situation there’s no doubt we have a lot of work to do and room to grow, both from the league and Club.

Part of it is that despite being a world game, it just hasn’t taken off from a professional perspective in comparison to the participation.

That doesn’t happen in 30 seconds, so there’s a lot of work to get where we want to be as a code, and we all have got to contribute.

That includes every stakeholder that sits around it too and I totally understand that can be difficult to do if there’s no agreement in decisions or directions.

Ultimately, our number one to build our Club and code is to fill stadiums week in, week out and we can’t do that without passionate people who want to be part of it.

You say that the A-Leagues is still in its infancy stage, your thoughts?

Caroline Carnegie: We have a lot of work to do, but there’s so much potential.

I know people have heard that a lot and get tired of the same messaging, but there have been numerous phases from a regulation perspective that we all have to grow, adapt and move with.

Next season is our 20th season and that is super exciting, but the Club is still so young in context with what’s happening in other professional sports so that needs to be factored in.

You’ve acquired numerous partnerships in the past few months including Turkish Airlines, ASICS and Lite n’ Easy, your thoughts on acquiring and retaining them?

Caroline Carnegie: We work incredibly hard to retain our partners and proud of the quality and calibre of them such as Turkish Airlines.

We’ve got wonderful partners that have been with us on the journey such as La Ionica, KFC and Checkpoint that have been around for a very long time, among many others.

When we sat in a room and announced the Turkish Airlines deal, Prof. Ahmet Bolat was talking about flying 90-95 million people around the world next year – all of whom will have exposure to their partnerships, which is a massive win for us. It’s also a win for the football code to get exposure as well.

In addition, having 777 Partners as a strategic shareholder is important to us.

We have General Managers across the business who meet regularly to look at leveraging better opportunities across the network. There’s a good analytical group that really supplements what we can do.

It’s still early days with 777 Partners, but still a positive relationship so far.

Turkish Airlines are one of Victory’s major partners.

Infrastructure is an ongoing challenge for all clubs, how is Victory managing it?

Caroline Carnegie: It’s a big challenge. There are so many people that want to play our sport off the back of the men’s and women’s World Cups, but not enough pitches to play at.

It’s a constant challenge but not necessarily unique to us – we want to try and solve the infrastructure problem but the one good take out of it is the number of people wanting to engage in our sport.

There’s work to do for infrastructure and that comes from us as well – these things don’t happen in 30 seconds either.

You need to find the right place, they need to be funded and it’s hard to find green open spaces to the extent that we would like, but it’s an exciting journey with it being better than people not interested in our sport.

We’ve found that people such as in council are happy to work with us, but as we can imagine the number one priority for us may not be the number one problem that those people have to solve as well.

Whenever we have those discussions, there’s a myriad of stakeholders that each party must deal with.

There is an impetus towards football grounds, more so than 5-10 years ago and that’s really pleasing to see because that is what the community is asking for.

Victoria is multicultural and people come together from all different backgrounds, so all of those people have probably played football from where they’ve come from, not so much from domestic sport.

There’s no shortage of appetite to work with people, it’s just a shortage of time for everybody to have their priorities lined up.

Caroline Carnegie speaking with Craig Foster.


You’ve spoken about preventing a ‘sugar hit’ from the World Cups, how do we sustain the momentum?

Caroline Carnegie: I don’t think there’s a reason why the game shouldn’t be a success.

Because we have a lot of different layers when we all work together, all stakeholders and state/national bodies need to help each other build what we aim to do.

The number one factor is people – when they lose interest, then sponsors and broadcasters would do the same and has a massive flow on effect.

We need to work together to ensure that the product going out there is what people want to see. Watching the Socceroos and Matildas was amazing, but we need people to have their heroes from domestic competitions.

The kids that love the game off the back of the World Cup are not able to see their heroes if they don’t follow the A-League every week.

In an ideal world, they love it when they play for their team, but then for the country loving them plus others that galvanise the national sides.

Victory has set up the Female Development Fund, how has that been incorporated?

Caroline Carnegie: For our A-League Women matches, we have not charged patrons for entry this year.

What we did was create the Female Development Fund and what we ask people to do if inclined is to put their money into that for female programs only and for people to apply for grants to help with program development.

It’s a tricky one because it’s not that we don’t value the girls, but it’s because we didn’t want to have any barriers to people not jumping on the women’s game when we had such a successful World Cup tournament.

In the women’s space, it’s those things to make sure that people have greater access to games and that they can watch their heroes and want to aspire to be like them.

No tickets for games is a different approach, but we have a long-term view to keep people involved and engaged with the game, eliminating those barriers.

Caroline Carnegie congratulates goalkeeper Lydia Williams.

How has the move been to The Home of Matildas?

Caroline Carnegie: It has been really well received.

As with any stadium, it’s more convenient for some compared to others, but it’s the elite nature of the facility from both a training and playing perspective has been welcomed by the girls.

A couple of years ago we had a member forum and we had more double headers coming up – there were people concerned around that.

We were clear at the time that we wanted to do the right thing by our members but also for our players, because the more they play the more you want to watch them.

If you speak to any of the girls, the difference in terms of how elite they feel having the home base with the quality it presents is huge. We are really pleased with how it’s turned out.

It’s a mindset shift as well, as our female players are still semi-professional and need to do other things given the nature of how the league is structured.

In your role, what does the future look like?

Caroline Carnegie: Our partners and shareholders are crucial to what we do.

However, our members and fans are number one. We can’t fill stadiums without them, and the players don’t want empty seats.

We had a course that we provided content for around 12 months ago, where the Director of Football, Coach, Chairman and I came and did a presentation.

Somebody asked me what does success look like for you; Success is not one thing, it’s always football first, but we want to be successful across everything we do.

From a membership perspective it is not just numbers – it is engagement, people who want to be part of Victory and us doing the right thing by them; In a tough environment where they decide what to do with their money, we don’t get questioned because they feel that relationship and value.

Commercially, we want partners to feel like they get a lot out of the alignment with Victory through business.

People should say win trophies, but if you do that in an empty stadium then that’s not success.

We are continuing to evolve and having a member working group helps us understand and validate the decisions we make through feedback.

John Tsatsimas – Leading the Charge at Football New South Wales

John Tsatsimas

John Tsatsimas, Chief Executive Officer of Football New South Wales, experienced the joys of football at an early age when he was exposed to NSW State League competition by his father.

The memories of the first national competition (NSL) launched in 1977 on the Australian sporting landscape are still transfixed in his mind.

His first official post was as General Counsel at Newcastle Jets before he assumed the role of CEO at the club from 2007-2011.

Perhaps his finest hour was as CEO of Western Sydney Wanderers when the club won the Asian Cup in 2014 under the astute guidance of senior coach, Tony Popovic.

Significantly, he also presided over the establishment of major infrastructure innovations at the Wanderers base in Rooty Hill between 2012-2022, including the creation of multiple football fields and amenities which are the envy of most sports in Australia.

Match action in the 2024 Football NSW Men’s Waratah Cup Final between Rockdale Illiden and APIA Leichhardt at Jubilee Stadium (Photos: Damian Briggs/FNSW)

However, it wasn’t all smooth sailing for the experienced administrator at the Wanderers as he witnessed the changing of the coaching guard five times and the failure of the club to make finals football in the last four seasons , prior to his departure in May, 2022.

Nevertheless, John Tsatsimas is a resilient football administrator and since his appointment as CEO at FNSW in November 2022, he has applied all his skills in guiding the organisation on a steady course of stability.

In this interview with Roger Sleeman, John Tsatsimas discusses all things football.

ROGER SLEEMAN

You’ve held CEO positions at Newcastle Jets, Western Sydney Wanderers and Football N.S.W.

Do you think the game is making sufficient progress?

JOHN TSATSIMAS

The game has evolved over the last twenty years and we’ve seen a lot of changes at a professional level.

It has grown exponentially in playing numbers in this period but there are always challenges re-emerging in different ways.

Also, the presence of a multitude of sports played in the country which compete for funding is a major challenge to the amateur and professional game

R.S.

Football has enjoyed large participation rates since the mid 1960’s.

How can this be translated into support at senior level?

J.T.

That’s the million dollar question as the game has historically been a  gateway for young people to play sport ,and trying to retain their support is the biggest issue in the face of increasing demand for infrastructure and the large choice of activities available to them.

Therefore, we need to provide better coaching, improved training facilities and more effective  engagement with an emphasis on providing pathways for players to compete at the highest level and increasing their appetite to follow senior football.

R.S.

NPL Men’s and Women’s football competitions are poorly attended.

In contrast, three weeks ago, Canterbury v Canberra in the NRL drew a crowd of 18,000 at Belmore Oval, while Sydney Olympic are lucky to get attendances of 500 at that ground.

What is  FNSW doing to address this situation?

J.T.

Rugby League has been entrenched since 1908 on the Eastern seaboard but they have very small playing numbers compared to football.

Also, we have competitions where matches are played at the same time due to the large fixture schedule.

People who attend NRL in the main don’t play the game as opposed to our constituents who either coach, play , are spectators or are involved  with transport assistance or fulfil volunteer roles.

Consequently, our sport has large numbers of people who are involved at grass roots while senior football is being played which reduces the spectator pool significantly.

John Tsatsimas handing out the awards at the Gala event

R.S.

Are you satisfied with the level of promotion for NPL football, in view of the very high standard of football produced this season?

J.T.

Certainly, the standard this year has been very high and we must give full credit to coaches and players.

However, it’s not the A-League and in the winter months the presence of the established senior codes, NRL and AFL and the blanket media coverage they receive, is more than challenging.

We are continually looking at ways to improve spectator numbers but there has also been a record number of viewers watching YouTube television this year so the interest in the competition is definitely there.

Also, people can watch up to six games through this medium which proves we are accessing the target markets.

R.S.

Match times for the NPL Men’s competition range from 3 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.

Why can’t we go back to the traditional 3 p.m kick off times for all first team games?

J.T.

The women’s programs are mainly played on Sunday and with the exploding growth of their game, it does create great pressure on facility availability.

Ideally, 3 p.m. kick offs as in former times would be welcome but ultimately the NPL clubs can make their own decisions about playing schedules without direction from FNSW.

R.S.

What is FNSW doing to reduce playing fees for elite football and other amateur participants?

J.T.

It’s a long standing issue but other sports have large broadcasting assistance and obviously a smaller cost base to subsidise their amateur players.

Amateur football clubs aren’t running a business and the costs are infinite, e.g. coaching, field hire council lighting, football gear and insurance.

If we had a silver bullet to change the situation, there would be reform where funding was provided from top down to support amateur football.

However, if we have players who haven’t the means to play at elite level we will attempt to assist them, just as amateur clubs will do if necessary.

R.S.

What is your opinion of the proposed National Second Tier?

J.T.

It’s been long talked about but we’re focusing on our competition.

We certainly won’t stand in the way of any club which has the aspiration to play in a higher level of competition.

As long as our existing clubs are fully invested in NPL football at the present time, we aren’t making any judgement on their desire to participate in the National Second Tier.

Critically, if there is going to be a successful NST, there really has to be representation from all states and a framework for promotion and relegation.

The problem is, the current model for the APL stipulates there won’t be any promotion and relegation until 2034.

Match action in the NPLNSW Women’s Grand Final between Bulls Academy FC and Macarthur Rams at Valentine Sports Park (Photos: Damian Briggs/Speedmedia)

R.S.

After your extensive involvement in the A-league, what is your opinion of its current standing?

J.T.

Challenging times, but I’d like to thing those in charge would give it direction and provide aspiration for junior players to progress through the ranks of NPL to A-League, to Matilda and Socceroo status and then seek out opportunities overseas which will boost the strength of the Socceroos and Matildas.

This can’t be achieved without a functional and successful APL which needs support from everybody in the game.

R.S.

How can we get more former players involved in the game?

J.T.

It’s often a case of creating positions but not every former player wants to stay in the game after their playing career has finished.

It’s a work in progress which has to be considered carefully because former players can definitely add so much to many areas of the game.

R.S.

Can the F.A. show better leadership?

J.T.

Those at the helm of the F.A. join the organisation with the best of intentions and similarly the APL.

However, the sport needs to move away from the pockets of success and grow the game on a consistent basis.

This is the greatest challenge for the governing body and after the success of the Women’s World Cup, the announcement by the Federal government of $200 million funding for women’s sport, with only a small portion allocated  to women’s football, was unexplainable.

These are the issues which require serious attention and strong leadership.

Nathan Perrone on Western United’s Science in Sport extension: “It’s a privilege to be able to continue with them”

Western United have recently agreed a two-year extension with Science in Sport (SiS) to remain as its Official Performance Nutrition Partner.

This confirmation will allow the club and its academy players to continue to gain access to SiS’s award-winning sports expertise and nutrition products such as their energy gels and recovery powders.

Since collaborating in November 2020, the pair has seen success together with Western United being crowned as A-League Men champions in 2022.

Soccerscene spoke with Commercial Partnerships Executive at Western United, Nathan Perrone, who discusses the journey with SiS, the reasons to extend its partnership with the global nutrition brand and what the future holds for the pair over the next two years.

How did Western United and SiS initially come together as partners in November 2020?

Nathan Perrone: It came together through our Lead Strength and Conditioning Coach at the time, Andrew Rondinelli.

“Rondo” as he’s known, currently works for the GWS Giants and left Western United at the end of the 2022/23 season. He was a big advocate for SiS and had used them in the past at other clubs.

It worked within Australia and the sporting landscape and Andrew Pirchan (former Commercial Partnerships Manager at Western United) managed to organise a deal.

They’ve been a fantastic partner and contributor to the high-performance side for our A-League teams, and I know the strength and conditioning staff really appreciate what they can provide.

SiS have not only collaborated with other football clubs across the world but have worked in other sports such as cycling and rowing. What made SiS stand out from other nutrition brands?

Nathan Perrone: They’re a global brand that works with some of the top performers in the world.

Seeing the likes of Spurs that they work with and hearing their involvements, I think it bodes well for our high-performance team because they want our players to be provided with the best nutrition possible, the supplements and whatever is needed to help increase their performance and recovery.

I’m not the expert in this space and with a lot of these football related partnerships, I play an element from a business lens but a lot of it comes down to the players and staff.

If it’s a product that they like and support, I take their best practice and their advice, and they’re all key.

They’ve acknowledged to us that they wanted to try and keep one club in the A-League, and they didn’t want to support other clubs in Victoria or interstate.

It’s nice to hear from them overseas that they want to just back us and go all in on one club. It’s a privilege to be able to continue with them.

SiS nutrition products. Image credit: Brentford FC website

What are the factors that led to this extended partnership with SiS and would you say Western United winning the A-League Championship in 2022 contributed to that?

Nathan Perrone: I’d like to think Tom (Global Head of Elite Sport at SiS) would think it’s part of it. Ultimately it has an impact, and you don’t want to provide the players with products that aren’t top standard.

For us, it was a no brainer coming to the end of the last agreement and there wasn’t really any doubt from my mind, the football staff or Tom’s for that matter.

For both of us, we just want to get better at trying to elevate the partnership and we’re doing what we can to help promote and support them in Australia, especially.

We can continue to expose ourselves to other clubs they work with as well and learn best practice.

What will we see next in this partnership between Western United and SiS and could we see the latter having an increased role as a partner of the club?

Nathan Perrone: The scale of going to jersey branding is probably unlikely at this point. I know they’ve recently done a big deal with Rugby Australia, for example, so they’re definitely wanting to increase their footprint.

We have a new contact, Sean Morley, who works at Nutrition APAC, playing a key role in distribution of SiS in Australia.

He’s going to be more hands on with us to try to do some more giveaways or digital content with the players to really enhance it on that level.

That’s their big play in trying to break into local clubs and the NPL, but they really want to become top of mind in Australia for professional athletes and others as well.

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